Tech Refactored

S2E7 - Supply Chain Shortages and the Cost of Building Fiber Networks

September 15, 2021 Nebraska Governance and Technology Center Season 2 Episode 7
Tech Refactored
S2E7 - Supply Chain Shortages and the Cost of Building Fiber Networks
Show Notes Transcript

On this TR/∂T (of the moment) episode, we’re joined by Shirley Bloomfield, CEO of NTCA, The Rural Broadband Association, to discuss how problems in the supply chain are affecting efforts to build communications networks and to close the divide between who has reliable connectivity and who doesn’t.

Disclaimer: This transcript is auto-generated and has not been thoroughly reviewed for completeness or accuracy.

[00:00:00] Gus Herwitz: This is Tech Refactored. I'm your host, Gus Herwitz, the Menard Director of the Nebraska Governance and Technology Center at the University of Nebraska. Today's episode was prompted by a tweet, Richard Shockey, who we previously had on as a guest. To talk about robocalls tweeted, It is becoming obvious that the FCC and congressional strategy of promoting broadband is doomed to failure since there's a massive shortage of fiber optic cable with 71 months being the standard for delivery.

Opto electronics now affected as well. And needless to say, that's a pretty, uh, big deal sounding tweet. So I asked Shirley Bloomfield, the CEO of NTCA, the Rural Broadband Association, if she would join us to discuss how problems in the supply chain may or may not be affecting efforts to build communications networks and to close the digital divide.

Shirley, thank you for joining. Delighted to be here with you today, Gus. So [00:01:00] we've previously had one of your colleagues, Mike Mono on uh, as well, but if we could just start with a little bit about NTCA and the organization. Sure. 

[00:01:09] Shirley Bloomfield: Absolutely. So, NTCA, the Rural Broadband Association represents about 850 community based providers across the country.

They cover about 35% of the Land Master, so maybe five to 7% of the population base. But these are folks, Gus, who actually provided telephone service when the large providers years ago, chose not to serve these rural, remote, obviously low density areas, and they quickly pivoted years ago to becoming the broadband providers as well.

Whether they're cooperative, whether they are community based, whether they are family owned, whether they are community owned. They're all folks who live and operate in the areas that they're providing broadband service. 

[00:01:48] Gus Herwitz: And what's the typical, uh, size of, uh, one of your members in, in terms of customers or households served?

[00:01:55] Shirley Bloomfield: Well, one of the things you have to realize when you talk about independent communication providers, there [00:02:00] is nothing typical. But I will share that on average, our folks have about 2,500 to 5,000 subscribers. Now I've got some who've got 50 subscribers and I've got some who have a hundred thousand subscribers.

You just get that vast range, uh, across in terms of what they're doing. You've got folks who've got three employees and. The, the person who's running the books is also climbing the poles, and you've also got folks that have 500 employees where they have the capacity to be a lot more, a lot more focused on individual tasks.

So the variation is huge and it, it ranges. Density in Alaska is obviously very different from Alaska and South Carolina, so we, uh, we've learned to pivot and, uh, work with carriers regardless of their circumstances. 

[00:02:43] Gus Herwitz: Let's, uh, jump straight to Richard's tweet the supply chain. What are you and your members, uh, seeing?

[00:02:51] Shirley Bloomfield: Yeah, so supply chain is one of these kind of non-sexy issues that is absolutely critical because everybody wants to focus on getting [00:03:00] broadband into the ground. What's it gonna take? How much money? How many people are we looking to actually provide connectivity to? And the piece that I have found that gets missing from these key discussions is what is it gonna take in terms of the actual assets, Whether it's the fiber optics, whether it's the CPE equipment, whether it's the routers that go in the consumer's home.

One of the things I think we all found as American citizens relatively early on into the pandemic, is that whatever was taking place in markets, particularly in Asia, was going to have an impact on us as American consumers. So sure we saw it in the lumber market and yeah, we saw it in in the chips. The part that policy makers didn't focus on is that also impacts the access to fiber optics.

It impacts the access to, again, consumer equipment. And what I fear is it's going to impact accessibility to things that are, are also constructed with plastic is the next warning sign that I'm seeing. So obviously trying to match the demand, the rush for deployment, along with the ability to [00:04:00] actually get the equipment that you need to deploy.

Those pieces have all got to come together. 

[00:04:05] Gus Herwitz: I, I, I have to say, it's not one of those sexy topics, but it is, uh, the supply chain issues are so important. And this is one of the things unfortunately, that the pandemic, You're exactly right, has, uh, shown us how important it is. And at some level, the, the supply chain issues that we're seeing now in broadband, Aren't at all surprising.

It's a tech sector. Richard's tweet mentions both the fiber but also the opt electronics. That is the, the components that go on either end of the fiber, and those are electronic systems. They tend to have microchips and. We see it every time that we, uh, every day that you open the news. Carbs are, there are shortages of cars because of the microchips.

There are short. I, I had to buy recently a different dishwasher than we'd planned to do to chips shortages. So not necessarily surprising. Let, let's focus, let's start [00:05:00] though, focusing on the thing that Richard really. The fiber itself. Th this isn't, these aren't microprocessors. Fiber is literally glass.

And as you uh mentioned, it's glass wrapped in plastic. What's the typical, do you know, the typical lead time to order, uh, a spool of fiber? And actually, I guess I should ask first, what, what are the, do you know the units. That your members tend to buy fiber. Let me step 

[00:05:24] Shirley Bloomfield: back to your first part of the question and, and that is kind of what the wait time is for Fiber.

I would tell you that before the pandemic folks have the ability to basically do a six to eight week window. You know, I've got a construction project, I'm starting to move. And partly too, these are not companies that have huge warehouses. Their ability to store is also a lot more limited than, let's say a Verizon.

At and t that may have huge warehouse capacity. So what these folks would do is typically be be purchasing as they were going through with a construction project. I will share with you right now, I've got folks who are [00:06:00] telling me they've got 72 weeks that they are waiting. That's a really long time when you're starting to think about not only building a project, but let's also say that you're in north.

You're a co-op up there, you may have four or five good months of build time, and if you miss that window, you miss that window until. Spring and everything kind of, um, defrosts a little bit in terms of the units. I, I'd be making it up if I told you any kind of a, of a measurement because I do know that our folks use all different kinds.

They use, uh, ribbon, they use strand, they use all kinds of different kind of fiber. Depends on where in the project they're, they're going. And that is the other thing I would say is that these folks are all, they're building to what works for their actual top. It's one thing if you're doing aerial fiber, it's another thing if you're doing buried fiber.

It's another, if you're doing back haul to a to a tower for, for wireless service. 

[00:06:53] Gus Herwitz: And you touch on, uh, a really important aspect there. Your members, smaller ISPs, [00:07:00] they tend to purchase fiber in different ways in the very large companies. How has, have you seen anything about how that dynamic is playing out?

I, I can imagine if you're a. A smaller provider. Let's say you recently got some federal funding or some state funding for a, a build, and suddenly you're hit with a two or three month delay. You're going to be getting pressure from your funders. You're also going to be getting pressure from subscribers wanting service and.

Other larger providers, if you have a warehouse of fiber, is this creating a competitive disadvantage or any unanticipated competitive dynamics? 

[00:07:37] Shirley Bloomfield: You raise a really, really important point that folks tend to kind of gloss over. Absolutely, because when you are one of these smaller community based providers, you don't have the scope and scale of a national provider.

My guys aren't going in buying, They may be looking at maybe 2000 miles of fiber for a project or a thousand miles of they're not coming in for million. At a time. So [00:08:00] one of the things I've really appreciated in the fiber vendor community, it has been frankly, some of their honesty about the fact that it's not always first in, first out, sometimes it is the larger order.

Trumps and, and my guys get bypassed in that process, that's problematic as policy makers on one hand continue to talk about how important it is to reach these rural markets and, but if they continue to get butt checked by national carriers in line for some of this equipment, that just continues to put those rules subscribers further and further behind the curve.

So we are very mindful about working with the providers, working with our member companies, for example, to encourage them to. Longer term, we got it. Storage is an issue, but how do we get you to think a little bit more visionary? Where do you think you might be going? And frankly, some of them, um, are taking a leap of faith with saying, I hope to get art off money.

I hope to get reconnect money. So I'm gonna go ahead and get in line and [00:09:00] make my purchase when I can with anticipation that I will actually get the support that I need to complete the build. So I, I'm seeing a little bit of that trending going on right now, and again, more advanced planning, which I think is probably not a bad thing given the shortages on all fronts at this point in.

[00:09:16] Gus Herwitz: Do we have any sense of what's driving these shortages? Again, focusing on the, the fiber side are, are these supply side disruptions like we've seen with so much of Covid, uh, we're just not able to build the fiber? Or is this a demand spike that's been driven by increased funding and demand for infrastructure?

And I, I expect the answers all of the above. Uh, if it is, uh, what were you seeing on both sides? 

[00:09:42] Shirley Bloomfield: So you get the right answer, Gus. Absolutely. It's, it's things happening on all front. So, so I will say, okay, pandemic hits it, hit Asia pretty hard, pretty fast. Um, being very frank, that's where a lot of, a lot of this part fiber, you know, Yeah, we've got some great domestic manufacturers as [00:10:00] well.

But, you know, there's a, a huge production supply that comes in from Asia. That shut down. We've seen it in the past. We've seen it with, there have been earthquakes over in Asia. You know, that has also kind of backed things up. Obviously the pandemic, the closing and the opening of the plants has really been somewhat problematic.

The other part is the transport. You got a clog in the sewers canal. You got a lot of issues. Even the ability to get it from a plant to, you know, domestic side has been an issue as well. And then now let's add in the fact that you've got a huge amount of spending that has increased the support that came through, not just the traditional programs that we all know have been out there, but the CARES Act and the American Recovery Act and the states and local governments really putting funding towards broadband initiatives in a way that they've never done before.

all of that is a perfect storm. The only saving grace that I see a little bit is that while we are so excited to see [00:11:00] Congress move forward on the infrastructure legislation, there's a small part of me that says, thankfully, just the way the process will work and the regulatory process and the rule making and everything else that.

Actually is money that I don't expect to see until maybe the end of 2023 coming out the door, 2024. So my hope is we can start to catch up a little bit in the course of the next year or two, and 

[00:11:24] Gus Herwitz: hopefully work through some backlog, Get some of those two dozen or however many container ships are off, uh, the coast of California into dock and, uh, ramp up some production.

Um, do, do you expect that this is a short term blip or do you think that this could be. I guess the easiest question is you, you mentioned providers looking at 72 week delays. Is that number going up? Is it stable? Have we hit the peak and do you think it's starting to or near starting to come down? 

[00:11:53] Shirley Bloomfield: So we haven't seen start to come down yet.

I, I remain hopeful. I do worry that fiber's gonna become the next toilet paper, [00:12:00] however, where people are going to start hoarding as as reformed toilet paper hoarder. I can say that, but you know, the whole idea that, you know, well, I don't know. Just in case, maybe I'll buy a bit, a little bit extra, and getting people to kind of manage their inventory appropriately will be one thing.

But I do think that the demand for fiber is only going to increase. And I think we know because the value of fiber, the, the value proposition is huge. Why? You know, My guys look at it and they say, If you're gonna dig, you're gonna bury plant. Why would you do anything but fiber? The ability in the long run to the sheer capacity of it, and frankly it's gonna be cheaper in the long run to go ahead and do it right the first time, and that means putting fiber in the ground.

Then you layer on top of that the demand on 5g. You know, as we continue to see a 5G build up, 5G is frankly a fiber fed product, so that will add to it. The other piece that I worry could also add to it a. Is a little bit of a pressure [00:13:00] on, uh, US manufactured equipment. There's been a preference for that in legislative initiatives.

Totally get it. Absolutely understand, Certainly understand the concerns in terms of some national security depending on where the fiber or other materials come from. But that will continue to put a further squeeze if you're starting to say you can't buy from these c. Folks in this country can only manufacture so fast and they only have so much of a capacity.

So I, I, I fear that we're creating kind of this funnel. So anyway, I hope spring's eternal, but I think we're gonna be in this 

[00:13:35] Gus Herwitz: for a while. So you, uh, uh, touched on what my next question was going to be, but just to, uh, make, make sure that, uh, we have this on the table. How are your members responding? Are they, uh, substituting any technologies are.

Opting for a lower grade fiber in any of their builds. Are they, uh, thinking about, uh, wireless less mile instead of fiber or saying we can do [00:14:00] some copper tin, uh, gigabit runs or something like 

[00:14:02] Shirley Bloomfield: that? That's a really interesting question, Gus and I would have to say not so much. I see with them being more interested, I think they feel like that would be settling, and I don't think they're in a place mentally or from a business perspective or from a service to their community perspective to settle at this point.

So I, I see them being more creative in terms of, Figuring out different ways to achieve scope and scale. I see them doing things like swapping with neighbors, Gee, I'm not building right now and I've got X. I'll go ahead and lend you some. And when your contractor comes back in, let's see what we can do.

So that is one of the advantages I think, of a pretty collaborative community. But yeah, there will be times, particularly as you earlier noted, these deadlines, folks, when you're taking these funds, you've got a deadline and people are hitting their deadlines. We've already been talking to folks at USDA, for example, about the fact they're going to have a pretty robust waiver process, gonna have to be ready for the fact [00:15:00] that people are gonna say, I can't get pedestals, I can't get fiber.

I know my build is due September 30th. I'm gonna need a three month extension. I just think that's gonna be a fact of life as we go forward. 

[00:15:11] Gus Herwitz: Oh, and that, that's going to make for such a messy process because whenever we start seeing these waiver requests and deadlines being missed, that the argument is always very often, very legitimately that there was a, uh, the people requesting the waivers were unqualified to start and shouldn't been approved.

And there was a problem in the design of the system and the program. And what, why didn't different providers get awarded in the first place? And, uh, this is just queuing things up for, uh, a bunch of messy. Political fights and finger pointing. So I, I guess we, we have that to, uh, look forward to. Uh, this is a painful question, but I have to ask, are prices going to go up?

[00:15:48] Shirley Bloomfield: I actually, again, I look at my market and that is the, the folks that are served by community based providers. And I would say I, I don't anticipate it. And there's a couple of reasons I would say that one [00:16:00] is, They're probably more price sensitive to their communities than our other providers. They go to church with their customers.

They see them in the grocery store. It's not like an anonymous, big company. They wanna do right by their community. They're actually extremely motivated to get as many people. Connecting, uh, in a broadband tool as possible, continuing to look at adoption and making sure we've got digital inclusion, particularly in these world markets.

So that would be one thing. I think you've got the societal and by definition, who these companies are. The second is, as long as they continue to have access to the universal service, high cost fund. For cost recovery, that's gonna be really important as well, because that, that everybody looks at universal service and they think of it as like a, a capital program.

It's what's a building program? It really is a cost recovery. It is the affordability piece. It is the program that says, regardless of where you live in this country, you should have access to comparable and affordable. Broadband service. It [00:17:00] used to be telephone service. That in itself is why that program is so important because that will allow the evening out of the rates so that affordability factor will be in place for rural consumers.

So I remain optimistic that we're not gonna see such a a meeting point on the supply chain crisis, that it will cause rate fluctuation of anything that's sign. So 

[00:17:21] Gus Herwitz: you've uh, mentioned several of the subsidy programs and other programs that we have, and there there are a lot of them. Uh, obviously the Universal service, the high cost program, Connect America rdo, which is part of that, The Rural Digital Opportunity Fund, the Reconnect Program through U S D A and the infrastructure legislation, which.

Who knows. It looks like that probably is going to happen. Any thoughts on how these issues should affect or are affecting those programs in terms 

[00:17:52] Shirley Bloomfield: of the supply chain? I think that. It's just making sure that policy makers are [00:18:00] aware of them as they go forward into these issues. Because again, I think I had the opportunity to talk to the Senate finance Committee earlier this year, and we were talking about infrastructure and, and again, I, it's, you know, part of my job is to raise that awareness that, again, as we earlier said, it's not sexy, but to be able to have to say, Look, one thing you need to think about is my guys don't need necessarily funky creative tax breaks, particularly if you're a co-op.

But what they really need is to make sure that the folks in their supply chain are motivated. So what will it take for Corning to build more plants? Or what will it take for for somebody else to be incentivized to produce more than they're producing today? So in terms of these programs, I just worry that it'll be consumer expectation, right?

Because. One of the things we saw with USDA, which I think really torque this a little bit, is USDA got a little bit ahead of themselves in the last couple of years with announcing these reconnect awards, so long and advanced that consumers. New broadband was coming, [00:19:00] but it was the announcement. The companies hadn't even gone through the paperwork hoops with USDA yet.

Then you get into the build and so you've got these consumers who are sitting there thinking, Wow, we just made this announcement. I'm getting broadband next month. And then you're a year and a half later and people are wildly disappointed. So I think it's also managing those consumer expectations, cuz I will tell you guys, we literally have our tech.

Who are bringing fiber out to these communities, being chased down the road by customers stopping them and saying, When you come and when you come, and when you building, when is it coming to my house? That's how important this issue is to to people. 

[00:19:37] Gus Herwitz: Speaking of the lead up and anticipation, I saw, I, I've seen some discussion and I, I forget where, I'm sure it was on Twitter that, uh, expressed concern that some of the fiber manufacturers and possibly other equipment manufacturers, they knew that there was going to be this dramatic increase in demand.

They didn't increase their supply. [00:20:00] Knowing that a limited supply, increased demand, this is an opportunity to raise our prices. Do you have any, Uh, I, I honestly don't know how competitive the fiber production market is. Do you have any sense whether this is a low competition market or there have been any shenanigans, for lack of a less polite term, , that I'd use, uh, to describe this sort of conduct?

[00:20:21] Shirley Bloomfield: I would say I, I, I would just share that when my member companies run into head, I usually hear about it. I have not heard anybody come back and talk about any of their traditional providers and, and I think there's a healthy mix of competition in terms of different entities that they can go to, different dis.

Distributors that they can work through. And frankly, a lot of them have their, their construction contractors have their own arrangements, so I have not heard anything that gives me pause in terms of price gouging or using this opportunity. As a matter of fact, I will share that I do stay in [00:21:00] regular contact with a couple of folks both on.

Kind of the, the router, c p e consumer side as well as as the fiber side. And I just truly get the sense that they are running as fast as they can, as well as everybody in this industry seems to be these days. So I have not felt any sense of, of holding back or controlling inventory in the spirit of, of trying to.

Kind of funnel a monopoly of any sort. So I think it's really just more access to it. It's just the ability to produce as fast as the demand is growing. How much 

[00:21:32] Gus Herwitz: you've mentioned the crews that actually put the fiber in the ground. How much of a first cost is the fiber, uh, component of deploying service compared to the labor, the CPE, the, the regulatory costs, permitting, licensing, all the other things that go.

[00:21:51] Shirley Bloomfield: They're all costs , and I would, I would just share that probably again, similar more [00:22:00] than cost. The issue on the construction crew is access to a crew. Workforce development is right up there with supply chain issue. And again, another issue that we talk about with policy makers, and you can tell eyes roll into the back of their head workforces not necessarily sexy unless you're on the labor, you know, and education committee.

It is a huge issue. I mean, we are talking right now, you know, we, we kind of estimate that in our space there's a just a little bit under 700,000 folks who actually work in the workspace in, in, in the rural broadband arena in terms of pushing out infrastructure before you even pass an infrastructure legislation.

They are already predicting that it will take an additional 850,000 workers in this space to just keep up with the current demand before you add $42 billion potentially in in new funding. That is a huge. Issue. If you miss a window, that construction crew is onto the next project. We're finding people are, [00:23:00] are more in competition to be able to get the crew when they need it and access to the equipment when they need it, so, So we should also be focusing on what does it take to train the workforce of the future?

These are exciting jobs. These are actually good paying jobs, you know, But how do we get more standardized apprenticeship programs or support for workforce development? So that is another piece that, again, while everybody wants to focus on, like, let's put fiber in the ground. It's like, well, you gotta get it in there somehow.

And somebody's gotta. Be the one to put it in. Yep. 

[00:23:30] Gus Herwitz: I, I don't know if those numbers also include, uh, tower jobs, but I, I know as well people putting up the towers and we need so many more people, uh, out in the field actually, uh, uh, doing this work. So, uh, Great. And as you said, they pay pretty well. Uh, a lot of these jobs.

So, uh, a good opportunity, uh, there. And another thing that came to mind, and this is, uh, uh, somewhat more, uh, somber note for a question, but with thinking about Hurricane Ida [00:24:00] and climate change and disruptions to infrastructure there, how's that affecting, I, I guess I'll, I'll ask Ida in specific, your. And then, uh, how are they thinking generally about climate change?

[00:24:11] Shirley Bloomfield: So it's a really, it is particularly powerful and it's interesting you would raise it just because we've been doing a lot of meetings with the FCC and along with sisa in the last week regarding, we've got about, we've got three companies that are community based providers that literally, if you follow their network up from the Gulf Coast, And you follow the storm track and you lay one on top of each other.

It is absolutely a bullseye in terms of what came in. Now, interestingly enough, with one of the companies that we were talking to, they've got about 1100 miles of plant. 600 miles of that is aerial cable. 500 miles of that is fiber. Fiber running, keeping the rest of the network up and going 600 miles of aerial cable.

Decimated, completely wiped out. They are going to have to start from [00:25:00] scratch. And this is, you know, infrastructure that literally goes down to the oil manufacturers and loop and the distribution of, you know, of energy for a good portion of the country. So very critical infrastructure. And I think it, it speaks to a couple of things in terms of the importance of Berry Plant.

So again, while it takes a little bit more upfront, while it's more expensive to do, as we're starting to see more of these impacts on North Carolina, South Carolina, certainly the Gulf and, and I will share at the wildfires at West, A number of our folks during some of these wildfires have had numerous issues with any of their aerial plant and have spent some of the time in between the wildfires trying to bury as much as they can simply to save as much of the infrastructure as possible.

Cuz not only that, but when you're in the middle of an emergency, you absolutely need that connectivity. So it's a double whammy of sort. Climate change. We haven't really focused specifically as an organization on that, but [00:26:00] certainly when we talk about futureproof technology, we're really focused on what is it gonna be taking, given the shifting dynamics we're seeing in our environment these days.

[00:26:08] Gus Herwitz: guess, uh, we are coming up on a half hour, so uh, I will turn it to you. Do you have any, uh, last thoughts or other topics that you'd like us to spend a couple minutes touch? 

[00:26:21] Shirley Bloomfield: I will just say one thing that I would love to see F people focus a little bit more on, we get very focused again on building infrastructure, building the broadband plant, and I, I do think it's obviously step one, but step two that I'd love to see folks spend a little bit more time and attention kind of focusing on.

Kicking the tires on are the applications, and I think we as a country could do I, we tend to be a little bit of a show me kind of country. If I took you out and you saw some precision ag in place, you'd be like, Huh. That's like a light bulb moment. Folks can do this. Sensors aren't that expensive. Look at what it does for productivity.

I feel very strongly that way about [00:27:00] telemedicine in particular, the ability to implement that on a small scale or on a large scale. So, so the only thing I would say is that I think we got in the point of the pandemic where we got very excited about all of the things that we saw, utilization of broadband networks.

I just hope that we as a society don't lose sight of that and continue to focus. Building in the networks, but how we can actually create smart rural communities. How we can actually focus on letting the broadband be the brains and, and how can we become better citizens and individuals in terms of actually utilizing that technology.

[00:27:35] Gus Herwitz: Oh, you, you are, uh, Speaking to my heart now, Precision Ag, telemedicine, and really, uh, counteracting, uh, a rural flight, making our rural communities a, a place that people can live with all of the connectivity that's afforded in other parts of the country and will therefore want. To live. So, uh, 100% agree.

And I, it's really interesting to hear you focus, pivot [00:28:00] from focusing on getting, uh, the fiber in the ground to the apps that run on the fiber, uh, as a priority that that is That's exactly right. We, 

[00:28:10] Shirley Bloomfield: we spend a lot of time producing intellectual, what I think is intellectual capital around that stuff, Gus, because I do think it is, it's gonna take a little bit of a village to get people to kind of adopt it and to embrace it and to kind of understand it.

So we actually produce a lot of papers really digging deeper into how this technology can be used. And that is, again, why we highlight the stories, because when people hear the stories or they see the application, In practice it, it makes it easier to adopt it. And we kind of thought one potential silver lining of the pandemic could be kind of a rural renaissance where people were really excited about getting to places where the value proposition of living in a lower density area, the appeal of some of these rural communities.

Now we haven't seen that take off quite the way we thought we might. But I will share a, a great little story with you in, in the height of the pandemic. I've [00:29:00] got a co-op in eastern Kentucky, in the Appalachia area who has gig service and they're amazing. And we have one stoplight and, uh, the New Yorker had run a story on them and.

The gentleman who's the general manager that the co-op ran into this young couple in the middle of the post office and they were like, Hey, do you know where the local broadband company is? We just moved from New York City. We brought our kids with us cuz we read the story in the New Yorker about how there's a gig service here.

So we got at a Dodge and here we are. And he was like, Come on, follow me. I'll sign up. And I thought those kind of stories are really warms your heart in terms of the work that, that we're all doing to try to bring connectivity everywhere. 

[00:29:37] Gus Herwitz: And it, it's such an important phenomenon. And there's been study after study Pew report after PEW report showing everyone thinks availability and affordability.

Biggest gaps causing the rural digital divide. But we have such an adoption gap, not just an availability gap. Demonstrate the relevance to me. Demonstrate that safe. Why should I [00:30:00] sign up for service, not, I can't sign up for service. And I guess in a way that most the larger providers aren't your providers, your members, they're on the front lines of that actually talking to customer.

[00:30:13] Shirley Bloomfield: They are. And the other thing that I will say when people talk about the digital divide that just kind of gets me a tiny bit, is that everybody assumes that rural America is a wasteland. My companies, So I've got 850 companies across the country. 70% of their customers have access to fiber to the home, you know, And that is where I'm like, you know what?

It's really a rural, rural divide. There is a rural America that is served by community based providers who are serving their neighbors. And you get a rural America that who is served by somebody who's thousands of miles away. It's a really different experience. So I just, I think that's always important to realize, particularly if we talk about a rural renaissance.

There are a lot of rural communities. I've got, well, 180 smart rural communities who are certified with gig service. [00:31:00] There's a lot of great places to live and still be able to do the stuff we're doing every day. 

[00:31:04] Gus Herwitz: Well, Shirley, thank you so much for taking the time, unlike getting some fiber delivered. This took us two days to set up, uh, this discussion, so it's really appreciated.

We've been speaking with Shirley Bloomfield, the CEO of NTCA, the, uh, rural broadband association. And I've been your host, Gus Horowitz. Uh, thank you for joining us on this episode of Tech Refactored. If you want to learn more about what we're doing here at the Nebraska Governance and Technology Center, or to submit an idea for a future episode, you can go to our website at ngtc.unl.edu, or you can follow us on Twitter at UNL_ngtc.

If you enjoy the show, please don't forget to leave us a rating and a review wherever you listen to. Our show is produced by Elseth Magilton and Lysandra Marquez and Colin McCarthy created and recorded our theme music. This podcast is part of the Menard Governance and Technology Programming Series.

Until next time, keep on digging.[00:32:00]